A.Stepanovski, V.Papakul. Lawyers. // Business Review № 6 (47). June 2007.

Business Revue № 6 (47). June 2007.

Lawyers are a respected professional world caste; and this thesis can also be proved by their income level. Public need for their specialized services is the main social prerequisite of their [lawyers] high status. The more civilized market society becomes the more natural become legal prevention and protection of interests of corporations and individual citizens. But despite the fact that legal profession is considered to be one of the most prestigious, lawyers in Belarus do not rank among major businessmen. Is it possible to change this situation? Our today's interlocutors answer with confidence: "possible and necessary". What actions should be taken in this case and which obstacles should be dealt with? Alexandr Stepanovski and Valeri Papakul, managing partners of the Law Firm "Stepanovski, Papakul and partners, Ltd.", will share their opinion on this issue.

Prehistory of the new history

- How did it happen that you, professional lawyers, have become businessmen?

Alexandr Stepanovski: I would rather say that we are just beginning to become businessmen. We have been thinking about that for a long time but real steps were taken only last year. Why? Beforehand we conducted an interesting opinion poll: does legal business exist or not in Belarus? And all legal community was of the same opinion: there is no legal business in Belarus per se. Objective reason - peculiar business environment, and subjective - unwillingness of many lawyers to practice law as business. But nonetheless there are some evident tendencies towards the change in the situation: our company and a number of our colleges could serve as an example.

- What are the reasons for these enlargements from your point of view?

A.S.: To a great extend external pressure, in particular exerted by our senior colleges - Russian lawyers, promotes this process. Unlike Belarus where there are no companies with permanent staff of more than 20 lawyers, in Moscow there are firms with 150-180 lawyers not including 70-100 people of service personnel. Business environment has started to develop; our clients demonstrate growth of their business which could be seen from their turnover volumes, number of employees and diversification of the occupied industry segments. In order to provide adequate services to the growing vertically and horizontally businesses of our clients we need a large well-coordinated team.

Valeri Papakul: Besides that in order to fulfill to a full extend new demands of our clients our team must have clear specializations because Belarusian legislation is getting more and more complicated all the time. In order to render quality services our lawyers have to constantly raise the level of their qualification. And under the condition of limited time it is possible only when a lawyer devotes him/herself to one narrow field but has very deep knowledge in it. Thus when making the decision on the merger last year we came to the conclusion that our company should be built as any other business - with well-arranged business-processes and tasks sharing. We knew that this scheme also has certain advantages for the lawyers engaged in it: they do not have to be distracted for clients search and at the same time they will always have enough work, they will be independent in their own specialized niche, and their labor will be adequately compensated. Such companies are always focused on the clients. That is why our motto today is "Clients are our everything".

- But it does not look creatively new…

A.S.: Nonetheless please note: many complain of the car dealers because repairs and quality of the services are not always to the benefit of the client. I do not know how cars are made and know nothing about engines, etc., but I see how I am being treated, but service is the second constituent of the final product. Neither competence nor professional knowledge but service holds the first place in our business today. Since first two are already present on the market we are paying particular attention to the one thing which is missing - service. Of course sometimes people criticize us, we also make mistakes, but we try to react adequately and thus make attempts to correct errors made. On a regular basis we invite Moscow colleagues for conducting seminars for our lawyers. Best Moscow law firms work using western quality standards in the sphere of rendering services to clients.

- What are the main topics of such seminars?

V.P. How to correctly hold negotiations; how to react to one or another situation; how to communicate with a client during the first meeting; how to learn to listen to a client and so on.

- Prior to the merger each of you already was a successful lawyer. Valeri represented one of the most famous Belarusian law companies - "Apices Juris". Alexandr had a resume of a well-known practicing lawyer with experience of working with one of the largest Moscow law companies - "Pepeliaev, Goltsblat and partners". Having united two of this strong competitive advantages, you win a possibility to create a Belarusian law firm with Moscow quality standards of rendering services to clients…
V.P. I think that for 13 years of its existence "Apices Juris" has become one of the strongest professional teams. And now it is time to grow further and, as we have already said, mainly in the issues of service and further specialization on the basis of international standards. In "Stepanovski, Papakul and partners, Ltd" at present there are 14 lawyers including 4 partners: Alexander Stepanovski, Valeri Papakul, Tatiana Ignatovskaya and Ekaterina Makarenko. By using the names of the founders in the company's name we have just followed a long-standing world practice: since these people are liable for everything the firm is doing and for the quality of the services it renders. Today similar practice is used by many Belarusian law and auditing companies.

A.S.: World famous foreign law firms which were established in Moscow already in 1989 work according to the highest international standards. In Belarus there are no law "monsters" but in the small Lithuania with the population of 4 million they exist. And we realized that we had a chance to make our own business. Although many of our Belarusian colleagues do not believe that it is possible to earn money in legal business. Their conclusions are based on the experience similar to the one I had, that is why I understand their point of view. The primary task today is service which satisfies the requirements of clients.

"Client is our everything"

- What are the principles of the client-oriented approach in legal business?

V.P. First of all the firm which focuses on the work with clients can not be tiny. Working day is limited by 24 hours thus the lawyer is physically not able to carry out an all-round examination of all branches of law. In this situation the only reasonable way-out is profound specialization of one lawyer and united legal competence of the whole company. Because each law sphere (labor, economic, etc.) has its own peculiarities and in order to master them one needs knowledge and experience. As a result the more specialized lawyers the company has the more competitive it is. Secondly, as Alexander quite right said, specialization itself can not exist without service and quality. A simple example. A client asked a question - we can answer him/her correctly, but with a delay, not in a proper form, without necessary recommendations, etc. But in business there are both a product and its wrapping paper. Now it is very hard to build competitive preferences exclusively on the basis of professional knowledge since leading companies have very similar level of such knowledge. That is why we have created such a business-model which is suitable and advantageous for a client.

- Do you ever take a tough stand toward clients?

V.P. We care and value our clients, build long-term relationships with them and are prepared for many things for them. But it is not a one-way road. Clients also need to adequately estimate the labor of lawyers and evaluate it not only in money terms. There is quite an old situation which seems to me suits our business: when a client comes to a lawyer and sees a signboard with three words in big letters: CHEAP, QUICKLY, QUALITATIVELY, and then a postscript: choose any two positions. Unfortunately some of our clients tend to forget that quickly and qualitatively means expensive, but cheap and quickly as a rule - without proper quality.
We prefer to be honest with our clients. We sell our time. And believe me it is a very dear although sometimes not tangible asset.

A.S.: In relation to this I very much like one of the quotations from the book by Tom Peters "The professional services firm": "sometimes you need to dismiss your clients". Indeed, in some cases we part with our clients on our own initiative because the client does not understand what the lawyer is occupied with. He/she thinks that the lawyer is obliged to solve all the problems and be available 24 hours a day. In the view of such an unconcealed consumerism we stop our relationships with this client.

- There are two opinions regarding the state of business competition on the market of legal services in Belarus. First one: competition is high because a lot of people with lawyer's diplomas find their clients. Second - this is a market with low competition because at the best two law companies will compete for one client. How do you prepare yourself to possible competitive attacks of foreign companies on your market?

A.S.: We do not have such keen competition as in Moscow. I can count these firms which enter a competition for large clients on the fingers of one hand. Nonetheless we are not afraid of competition from the side of foreign firms because they face some serious obstacles here. The first one is the requirement that each law firm is obliged to have specialists on the staff who are attested by the Ministry of Justice, are citizens of the Republic of Belarus and have experience of working here. The second - the head of the company must have legal education. So at present foreign citizens can not practice law, they will still have to employ a Belarusian director and have a staff of Belarusian lawyers. Such examples already exist on our market. Turning back to various individual entrepreneurs and individual advisers, I should say that they have their own niche. Either they will have a very narrow specialization - will solve one particular problem within the framework of cooperation with a big company or they will render services to clients from small and middle size enterprises and physical persons. And this is not our niche. We are oriented on large clients and do not conceal this. What does this give us? Experience of solving serious complex problems and money for development. Our confidence is based upon macroeconomics growth. It entails inflow of investors, other scales of privatization, active building, speeded up rates of production, etc. Recently one of our clients said an excellent phrase: "You ought to have the following motto: we offer to solve big problems with small losses". Owing to legal assistance the documents are drawn up correctly and thus the client is insured against severe damages. Taking into consideration the fact that our clients are very good at comparing expenses with gains they understand that investments in legal protection prove to be profitable.

V.P. In my opinion, at present there is quite a keen competition for big foreign clients coming to our market. Since we participate in tenders we know other five-six companies-participants. As a result six companies for one client is quite a serious competition. But it is more a development competition: the more attractive Belarusian market will be the easier major law companies will find major clients. In Russia the competition is stronger but the clients are spread between a great number of firms, also because there are a lot of competing international companies which of course contract various law firms.

- On which world standards do you orient and how do your clients react to your innovations?

A.S.: When I was working as an individual entrepreneur my Moscow partners clearly stated their position: there is a need for a legal entity. Western and big Russian companies work only with legal entities - this is their principle. Today we know which requirement exist in regard to document formats, keeping of documents, filing of reports, and terms of execution.

V.P. World standards are quite simple and clear: observance of professional ethics, consideration of the conflict of interests, unconditional confidentiality, responsibility for the results of one's labor, strict observance of the legislation and competence in the issues with which the lawyers are dealing.
Large foreign companies have been working in accordance with these principles for a long time and require that the companies which render them services follow these principles as well.
The standards are so clear and useful that they entail only positive reaction.

New business-model: details

- Large Belarusian companies for the most part have clear principles of business-processing: flexible organizational structures, budgeting, system of products promotion, etc. How does your business model look like?

V.P. Let's start from our major principle - efficient management of resources such as monetary, organizational and temporal, in order to satisfy the client's requirements with maximum success in relation to time, competence, documents formats, etc. We are strictly following this principle while building our business model. As far as our structure is concerned, it is "sharpened" for the business requirements - establishment of business, ensuring its vital activity, protection of business. That is why we have corporate practice - registration, establishment, legal audit during merger and take over of a company. Common or commercial practice - which solves the problems of the company's routine activity. And the third practice - court practice. Each client has a manager in the person of a senior lawyer or a partner. His/her functions include processing of the order, control of the terms of execution, communication with the client aimed at building up of a scheme of legal security of the client's business.

- These are classical tools.

V.P. The main problem is how to realize and maintain this model. We have developed a program of quality support. The manager sees to the quality and to the terms during the whole process of service rendering. Then - distributing of administrative, marketing, financial functions between separate professionals because in Belarus it often happens when one person is a founder, top-manager, senior marketologist and chief employee. We are working in the field as well. Many clients desire to work only with the heads since there is a stereotype that these people are the best. We want to break this scheme. Being top-managers our goal is not only to participate in working with clients but also to follow up that the corporate standards are observed, to carry out educational and tutorial functions, but it is our employees who have specialized competences.

- How do you manage to stay professionally fit yourself?

V.P. Our good professional form is the merit of our respected clients and lawmakers. They do not allow us to enervate ourselves. First of all, we must always show the best correlation with the level of business development of our clients. And as a rule client's business grows and becomes more complicated. That is why we can not stand still either. Secondly, the legislation is constantly changing as well.
Together with other our employees we participate in various seminars, meetings, exchange experience with our colleagues, very closely study court and law-enforcement practice.
But in relation to ourselves there is another paradox: in the first place we cannot embrace the un-embraceable and secondly we cannot split ourselves into managing and professional parts. While communicating with a client we always touch upon professional issues, and we have enough experience and knowledge to consult the client with level of professionalism which he/she requires from us.
But the desire to embrace the un-embraceable can play a mean joke: occupational disease of lawyers - heart failure if to take every call from a client as an exam or stress: if during the first five minutes of the call you have not answered which article of the corresponding code interprets this or that issue - you are a bad lawyer. There are people who work in such a manner almost round the clock and thus get into a simple trap: you are the best lawyer and all the rest are just simple assistants. Clients realize this very quickly and…all of a sudden you are neither a lawyer nor a chief. And you already do not have time to think about the strategy of your company, your employees, quality of the service, communication with clients; you do not have time: you must answer the phone and answer the questions as if on a hot line.
We have chosen the other way: to specialize each employee and have come to the conclusion that our firm will have employees who know certain fields better and deeper than managing partners. And from our point of view this is the correct strategy approach.

- How quickly do your clients start to realize the efficiency of a new business-model?

A.S.: Recently one client ordered to draft a complex complicated agreement. We have agreed upon a certain amount. Then it appeared that in order to make a draft of such an agreement the amount is to be twice as high. The client said: I understand that this work cost the amount you stipulated but…the revenues from my business at the moment do not allow me to pay for your services. He understands that his business is not yet fully developed. But to tell the truth we already have a group of clients with whom we never face problems. They are familiar with our behavior model - they have seen it in their head offices or their western colleagues - businessmen. For the first group we offer a transition model of our cooperation, we start to implement an hourly rationing of our labor, for instance in court practice. We explain: maybe you will not pay more but you will simply look at the problem at a different angle.

- Which elements of your business-model distinguish it from the other businesses?

V.P. One of the features is that the vast majority of law firms do not have financial diagnostics and financial plan. There are both subjective and objective reasons for this. But it was not in vain that I paid attention to business education, education of top-managers and joined the EMBA program: there they study the problems relating to financing, budgeting, diagnostics, strategic marketing. Certainly right now when drafting a budget we base it on the plan to cover all paid hours of every employee. In order to build up an efficient inner business environment and to make communication with client more comfortable we buy abroad expensive management programs. We are ready to bear such expenses because they will enable us to join all business processes: interaction of employees, finances, service, etc.

- Do you develop your business without external investments?

V.P. Business in the sphere of rendering services does not require a lot of external investments. We rather need internal investments: desire to correctly build up and dynamically develop our business, experience, strategic thinking, a set of key competences, worked over inside business processes.

- Do you plan to diversify your business with help of other activity types?

A.S.: Only legal services. They say that "one should not put eggs in one basket" but it is not right in relation to business. Only by being focused on one direction it is possible to go deep.

New business - new prices?

- Modern marketing concepts prove that price is no longer the only guiding line of consumers' preferences.

A.S.: Many do not pay so much attention to the price. Having merged we registered a new legal entity and changed our price policy. While signing new agreements we have sufficiently raised the prices to all of our clients. And we had a very serious anxiety that some clients would refuse to work with us. But today all our clients are still with us. The price does not play the critical role to them, what is more important is the attitude towards the person, his/her problem, care, attention, persistence, industriousness and professionalism. We consulted our Moscow colleagues - they raise their prices every 12-18 months and all the clients adequately react to this process.

How to make a career in a big firm- Do you adhere to international standards in HR policy as well where there is a clear stimulating career scale: assistant, associate lawyer, lawyer, partner?

V.P. Yes, we try to follow it. It is not very wise to invent a bicycle in this sphere. We have divided all our lawyers into corresponding ranks. Every lawyer who joins our firm knows his/her personal basic level in accordance to which he/she will be given a service status: associate lawyer (as a rule, student of the last year of study), lawyer of the first, second and third years. In three years he/she will be able to pass an exam in the Ministry of Justice and get a certificate of attestation. Then he/she becomes senior (lead) lawyer. Head of the groups created on various directions of services are senior lawyers. Next level - partner and managing partner. Each rank has its own salary rate, bonus system, hourly and financial plans. Achievement of these indices depending on the results enables to go up the "service stairs" faster or slower.

A.S.: Since we have an agreement "Pepeliaev, Goltsblat and partners" we send our employees on business trips to a luxury office of our Moscow colleagues so that they can feel this team spirit of a huge firm, experience intellectual energy of legal business, see the standards not on a sheet of paper but in a democratic atmosphere of communication, labor conditions, principles of professional cooperation. Our guys get back with a "zest" - they receive necessary impulse to work in a new way, they understand how one should value his/her clients what ever requirements they might set, they see their potential future, they know what they need to do to make this future real.

- Many businessmen insist that Belarus lacks middle class staff. Is this problem relevant to you?

V.P. Every year 3500 lawyers appear on the market, many of them have paid quite a substantial sum of money for their education. At the same time universities still pay closer attention at studying and learning by heart the rules of law. Unfortunately they do not teach how to draft a legal conclusion, very rear they teach how to compare, systematize, accumulate experience; I will not even mention such spheres as clienting or budgeting. And of course these students do not have practical experience of working in a team. And having gained one or two clients this individual is ready to establish his/her own tiny firm. This concerns young specialists. Yes, it is true that today there is some diktat of good specialists on the market who know their worth. As a rule they work in a situation: "I myself play, sing and sell tickets". But nevertheless today human factor becomes the governing factor and not professional knowledge which a priori must be on the highest level. In other words honesty, decency, respect towards the colleagues and their opinion, ability to work in a team, ability to subordinate. It is possible to raise the level of professionalism but unfortunately human qualities are almost impossible to be changed.

A.S.: We are able to offer such working conditions and remuneration of labor that we can pretend to the very best: either students or employees of top or middle grade - on the condition that our colleague shares values and is eager to work in our business model. Our asset - our people; that is why we always say to our employees: today we are the founder, we are partners, but in three-five years if you work properly, fulfill your plans, develop yourselves, with or without our help, participate in the projects of the company promotion - you will become the same partners as we are and will get an equal share of profit. It will be divided into four, then five, six, seven partners and so on. But on the condition that our cumulative turnover will also grow in money terms. We are all partners in this situation because do not sell goods, we render services to one clients with help of common knowledge, experience and efforts of our legal team.

- What methods of staff selection do you use?

A.S.: Our hiring policy is very simple: we contract people who we like. A new person comes, all four of us get together, so that all partners and key employees could evaluate the candidate, hold one, two, three interviews. If at least one partner does not like the person due to any reason we refuse him/her. Because excellent service to clients is both atmosphere of mutual understanding and respect inside the company. It is like two communicating vessels: if you do not feel comfortable in the organization this means that you will not work well with the clients too.

V.P. For example, today we are in need of a few specialists in labor law, there is a big load of work and perspectives. We are to motivate good workers to cooperate with us because firstly they value their freedom and secondly they have already had negative experience of working with law firms. But I hope and I am confident that the atmosphere which we are trying to create will enable us to attract the best specialists on this market.

Legal civilization is ahead

- All over the world including Russia legal community is a major public force which has strong lobby in lawmaking and executive bodies of government. Does Public Association of Commercial Lawyers (BelPACL) have the potential to form a civilized legal environment in our country? What do you think?

V.P. I will start with the fact that Alexander and myself are the board members of the Public Association of Commercial Lawyers (BelPACL). The person who really thinks about our future is the one who shows initiative and takes an active stand in the association. From our point of view we can now observe the growth of legal awareness and change to the better of the legislation. The lawyer changes its status of a person who solves issues into the status of a professional who defends the observances of laws. The importance of a lawyer in the society grows as well. But unfortunately not enough due to the fact that there are still very few traditionally developed markets: privatization, securities. Foreign clients sometimes say: in your country it is absolutely impossible to win a case in court against a state body or a state enterprise. This is not true. If the position is grounded and legitimate it is necessary to defend it. We win the cases both against state enterprises and controlling bodies. And if we did not see the perspective of market development we would have split up long ago. We participate in drafting of laws, in the work of Advisory Council of the Ministry of Justice, discuss passing of important statutory acts.

A.S.: Lobbying of Public Association of Commercial Lawyers (BelPACL) interests has begun only now from the building of dialog with the authorities and Supreme Economic court. And it is very good that the dialog at least began because earlier we did not even have that. We have already communicated at the meeting of the Advisory Council of the Ministry of Justice, some members of the Association participate in the Union of Taxpayers, others - in the Society of Protection of Consumers Rights and so on. This is also part of our work - the so-called social part. We raise the problems of professional ethics of lawyers. When Vladimir Khvalei, our colleague from "Baker and McKenzie" from Moscow, came to Minsk he said that their code of professional ethics is as thick as the volume of Great Soviet encyclopedia. It is clearly stated there: we do not solve problems, we act within the bounds of the law and attempt to solve this or that client's task or problem in accordance with the law requirements.

Brands of legal origin

- At present in Russia Astakhov, Borschevski, Kucherena are popular brands which successfully reap the fruits of their brand-building. Has the time come to promote legal businesses in the same way in Belarus? What do you think?

A.S.: Have you noticed that the people you mentioned are all advocates and not businessmen. We also have Collegium of Advocates with some vivid examples. If Mass Media, importers, suppliers wish it is also possible to make beautiful icons of style out of these people when there is a need for this in the society. In Russia there are lawyers who are much more famous and richer than those who you have mentioned. They promote their law firms. I suppose that such time has not come yet but it will come for sure. This niche will be taken by modern advocates. Three-five bright personalities will be always in the limelight.

V.P. At present our clients associate legal services with us personally. And our task today is to make everything that in some time our clients will associate legal services with our company.

- Practically all over the world 90% of law firms are called after 2 main partners who established them. Is your task to create a legal mark and not to go down in history? Or do you want to kill two birds with one stone?

V.P. To tell the truth we have not been thinking much about our trace in history. Name is just means of identification. And as I have already said it is personalization of responsibility. This is very important.

A.S.: Our institutional building advisor gave us a task: each partner has to write how our firm will look like in 3 years and in 25 years. The first situation I described almost in 25 minutes. And as far as the long-term perspective is concerned I have no idea: whether it will be my last name carved in a stone or it will be a world famous legal brand. I tend to think it will be the second variant. I hope that we will build a successful business, and then a serious player will appear on the market and will buy our company. And I will give myself a grade "+4" on a 5 grade scale if we get such an offer. Perhaps we will refuse it but it is also possible that if the conditions satisfy all the sides then we might accept it. Whether the new owner will leave my name or not - it will be his/her decision. Whether I will be working in this company in 25 years time depends on the drive - will it still be present or not. But I also do not rule out the scenario that we will develop at accelerated tempo and in 25 years our names will still be on the signboard of this company together with the names of other even more brighter partners.

- Everyone understands what improvisation in jazz is. And what is improvisation in jurisprudence?

V.P. Improvisation is a well planed action. Many lawyers are able to improvise because they have well developed speech skills. At the same time the speech could have zero contents and the clients perfectly realize this.

A.S.: Improvisation is a model of solving issues…

- Do your children know their rights and in conflict situations ask you to read them?

A.S.: No. We have a huge book "Human Rights" in our library. But unfortunately even I do not have time to open it.

V.P. My eldest son is thirteen and he wants to become a lawyer. Before he goes to bed I do not read him his rights, I try to explain that in order to become a good lawyer first of all he needs to become a good man: honest, responsible, kind, not greedy, it is necessary to study and gain life experience, build up relations and to think logically.

- Which literature genre do you prefer?

V.P. I with pleasure read Akunin, Marinina, as a lawyer I like John Grisham. I prefer psychological genre. Lately I have been thinking a lot about EMBA study and thus have to read business literature.
A.S.: For quite some time I have not had a chance to read fiction. At home I have a huge library of business literature which I take a great interest in. Unfortunately I do not have time for fiction. My favorite genres - professional services, staff management, educational methods, because at the moment I have to study a lot myself and share the knowledge with the others. As a rule I read two-three books at once, read one then put it aside, start to read the second one and at this time the material from the first one is being stored in my mind…

- Does your corporate ethics encourage or forbid affairs at work?

A.S.: I have not dealt with that yet. At least I have never prohibited.

V.P. I am quite ok with that as long as it does not impede work.

- We live in the time of TV standards which in many aspects determine behavioral stereotypes and even selection of future professions. Which serial would you propose to make?

A.S.: (laughing) About auto-mechanics where they are all noble, keen on their work and professionally responsible specialists. I think it is not a bad idea for a movie.

V.P. Very often serials make things much simpler than they are in reality. If you want to know about a job of an investigator - go to the police department and only then make your decision. I would like that serials could reflect our harsh reality. Take for example any American movie: we see a court room and a young neat lawyer comes in and starts: dear members of the Jury, I object…But in reality before you become such lawyer you need to spend years sitting in front of the computer at nights, "digging" in laws and so on. No one thinks about that. I would recommend that young men who have made up their mind to become a lawyer read John Grisham.

- As lawyers and as family men what would you recommend to strengthen families which serve as a social cell of the society?

V.P. To work less and to try to manage working time better. Family is something which must be and one must give his/her attention to it. But as a rule lawyers are maximalists in everything. If a person works well he/she totally devotes him/herself to work and doesn't have time for a family. On the other hand after working for years in the service industry it is possible to find a mutually acceptable way of building relationships in the family. If you want to satisfy you client in accordance with the highest standards wouldn't you do anything for your family too? Family is the most important client.

A.S.: In fact everything is built on the psychology of the relations. It is necessary to try to find balance between one's personal interests, interests of the family and work. It is not always possible to do but we should strive for this.

- What do you need to achieve the state of comfort in your life?

V.P. State of comfort is both pleasure from the work you have done well and a state of soul. This is when you had a good sleep or swam a couple of kilometers in the pool or went to the sauna or jumped into an ice-hole - there is a number of such states.

A.S.: On the one hand comfort is a state of peace but then it becomes a break and stops from moving forward. That is why when nothing is going around me, nothing disturbs me I do feel uncomfortable.

- In your opinion what are the negative consequences of globalization for Belarus?

V.P. People tend to think "it is better in the places where we are not present". The influence of globalization could be seen that the Belorusians could really think that it is better in the places where they are not present. It is a pleasure for me to think that it is not Belorusians who pick up strawberries in Ireland, deliver newspapers in Germany and wash dishes in America. Globalization shows that not all that bad in the Danish kingdom.

A.S.: It seems to me that globalization to a certain degree brings some unification. On the one hand it is good, but on the other there are some quite serious shortcomings, i.e. you lose self-identification, you dissolve. We are Belarus, we have our beautiful history, we must cultivate it. We must cultivate Belarusian language, this will be our advantage on the wave of globalization. Because quite soon Chinese will become the language of world communication. Even if I live in Australia I will always know that I am Belorus and I am proud of this. This is what patriotism is made of.